[Lightrebel]

Hello all! I recently was in the fortunate position to buy a used turbo setup with meth injection for a GT on the cheap. Borgwarner turbo 800cc injectors? The works. Everything's included all the piping and everything is already laid out too. I have a new radiator aswell. I've been doing loads and loads of research and reading and feel I am prepared to throw mild boost at this car and hopefully not blow it up 😂(7psi?)

Anyways. To those of you who have turboed a GT what are your tips and things to note and look out for? I need to do a compression and leakdown test and I have an oil analysis waiting at my house aswell to do to make sure she's in good shape. Thank you! I would love for this to become a good just discussion post abt turboing GTs aswell.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

Here's general 4G advice. Make sure you figure out your fuel control. If you're using the factory ECU, you can't use an FI/C or any sort of piggyback and get proper fuel control due to a MAP referenced table for fuel injector pulse width. They can do ignition timing, they can try with fuel, but they're basically why FI on the 4G was dead between 2009 and 2015. Piggyback led to a lot of busted engines.

 

[Lightrebel]

What do you recommend then? I see speed farm garage has FI tuning for the gt.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

It's the software to allow it, not a tuning service. I may be going to Ohio this summer to make up tuning for the AutoCityImports kits, but even that wouldn't translate right over onto unknown setups.

Depending how fancy you go, standalone and changing cam trigger might be the answer.

If you're staying basic, you could use the airbox solenoid as an RPM trigger for your methanol in Fastworks, but it doesn't support anything but a straight voltage output, no modulation to set flow rates. You'd use it to trigger a relay, or you'd wire that into a nitrous/boost/meth controller (I use an eboost street on my GS that has that capability).

 

[Lightrebel]

Mm. I'm not too worried about getting methanol setup initially so if I have to veto that for now that's okay. I want to run low boost so I think it's unnecessary. Do I need to go standalone if I'm just running a simple turbo setup? No e-wastegate or solenoid I'm simply just running a 7psi spring and letting it all be old school and mechanical.

 

[Lightrebel]

Will u or speedfarmgarage do remote tuning?

 

[Sabertooth^2]

I do all the SFG tuning myself.

The idea on the FI stuff right now is it's just a software upgrade which allows turbo functionality and comes with a base file. It's not a performance file dialed in in any way to make it super fast or efficient. Typically turbo stuff like that has to be done live tuned in person for the sole reason of fragility. Eg, if I'm in the passenger seat, I can tell you to lift off throttle. Over data logs, if I see something going wrong, the damage was already caused before I got the log.

In the future I'd like to have turbo tune files which can just be loaded and run that way without adjustments needed. They'll have to be conservative though, and they would require consistency among the users setups. Not all turbos and manifold setups will play the same. Not everyone runs the same injectors, eg, someone running some $200 eBay 1000cc vs the $600 Bosch 1000cc could have very different results due to the injector pulse width being so different (the Bosch are much faster opening and closing, giving better fuel timing, especially at idle and high RPM). Then there's carbon deposits to worry about. What works great for someone with 100k miles knocks like hell on the average 150k mile person's car NA already. Crank the heat up with a turbo and that gets even worse. Luckily people can solve that with top end cleaners (not added into fuel, and not fuel system cleaner, fuel system cleaners can cause issues on fuel injected cars, leaves an orange ash which causes weak spark and contaminates in general). So many variables really. The placement of a curve in someone's intake piping can be enough to cause air swirling requiring MAF table adjustments (general rule, keep at LEAST 6" of straight pipe before your MAF, more if there was a hard angle recently). There's a lot to it.

 

[Lightrebel]

I see sir. So run through you for a base map just to get the car running? It's not going to be a very in depth tune tho and needs fine tuning more like in person on a dyno? I'm willing to work with u if u are willing to work with me on this as I already have all the parts haha. I can't send u my entire setup and get all the info needed and maybe we can work something out.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

I'll need your fuel injector data, MAF data if not stock, to know what you run for a MAP sensor, details on your fuel system (eg, dead head or manifold referenced), some pictures to understand how your setup is (eg, how's the wastegate going to behave, do I need to worry about creep or heat), some parts info, eg, which turbo (helps me know what to expect), and can go from there with the base file.

But yeah, it's something you'd want to take to a dyno tuner. But you'll have the software they can use. When I sell the FI software, unless the user wants to fully set it up themselves, I don't want to leave anyone dead in the water unable to run the car on it.

 

[Lightrebel]

Very good. I'll get you the info asap. I plan on putting the kit on the car soon maybe within the month. Rather me just pm you that info? What is the software u use to recognize FI? Are you flashing the ecu or rewriting certain parts etc? How does it work? Just to know what I'm getting into


Other than tuning, what advice do you have for the setup itself? Wastegate placement? Outlet size for oil feed line for turbo. I know knock is the killer on cars for forced induction.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

It uses Fastworks, and a custom definition will likely have to be written by them before I'll have something to work with. I've got people ahead in line right now too for custom files being written.

The custom functions get written write into the factory ECU. It has enough memory for the extra goodies. Once you have it set up, you'll have access to the full tuning software, looking a lot like this (this is my 2009 GS ECU with the turbo functions added)

Wastegate, make sure it's placed somewhere it'll get good flow. Sticking out at a 90 degree angle right where the pipes come together for example is not good for flow. Poor flow can be somewhat remedied with larger gates at least.

Oil feed will depend on the turbo itself. Some have internal restrictors, some don't. Check for the specific turbo you're using. I feed mine from a 1/8NPT port on a sandwich plate. 1/8" feed is going to be enough or too much depending on turbo. Journal bearings like lots of flow. Make sure your outlet is large. I use 3/4" outlet back to my oil pan.


Knock is even more a killer because the GT is 10.5:1 compression. Not a commonly used compression ratio for turbo stuff. Eg, a 2JZ turbo engine is ~8.5:1. GS is 9.5:1, which makes them a lot easier to boost, but even then I drop them to about 8.7:1 with my kits to keep things friendly and safe on pump gas.

 

[Lightrebel]

Oh that's super cool. Does mivec make tuning difficult? I've read and heard that from several places. Ill take note to all you have said especially wastegate placement. My turbo is not internally wastegated and I have an external one. All of the exhaust piping for the hot side of the turbo was done by him already the whole thing is basically just bolt on its rly nice. Brandon was the one who sold me his old kit if you're familiar with that. He said he worked with u and recommended u.
how many people are in line? Basically how long until you'd be available to work with so I can timeline the build. How much is all of your services in USD? SFG is all in Canadian it seems.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

Do you know which Brandon? I'm drawing a blank on a Brandon who'd have had a GT Turbo kit around.

I've got 2 in line. One was started end of January. The other should be quicker.

And it varies. It's priced in CAD, it'll vary with exchange rates. It makes doing taxes hell when I take USD directly. But your bank will convert your USD to CAD.

 

[Lightrebel]

Do you know which Brandon? I'm drawing a blank on a Brandon who'd have had a GT Turbo kit around.

I've got 2 in line. One was started end of January. The other should be quicker.

And it varies. It's priced in CAD, it'll vary with exchange rates. It makes doing taxes hell when I take USD directly. But your bank will convert your USD to CAD.

Brandon Bennet is his name. He was in Ohio. And very goood. I'll try and pm you all the specs if I get around to it today.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

The name sounds vaguely familiar. I don't remember working to design any sort of kit with them, but maybe I gave some suggestions.

And the main thing really is going to be the custom definition files from Fast works I'll run through the list and give input, but can't start a file until I have the turbo definitions and your initial read file. And to get that you need a Fastworks license, which comes with the software purchase.

So it gets paid up front, your account gets activated, you get me a read, then there's a delay while the definitions get made, then I get them, and can make your file.

 

[Lightrebel]

Alrighty then, I'll send u the spec sheet and then once I get the kit install going I'll purchase a license and the little device I actually need for the tuning process then work with u on getting a good running tune at least for the car. Then u recommend taking it to a dyno?

 

[Sabertooth^2]

Should probably start the process getting a tune file ASAP, then install the parts after you have the file.

For one, it won't run on a 3 bar MAP sensor or similar which you'll be needing to see boost. Two, even if it did, the timing targets and fueling are way off from what you'll be using, and likely bend a rod the first time it comes close to boost. The car will just be a paper weight without tuning.

 

[Lightrebel]

Ohhhhhh I get what u mean now. I need the FI software to even be able to start the car the first time with the kit on or rods go through block. So u upload it before u do a start. I just read the guide on SFG. He included a new map sensor. I have an a pillar gauge pod setup. I have oil pressure and boost pressure. What would u recommend the 3rd best gauge to be? Hopefully I will purchase the fast works license today and then send u the entire spec sheet of all the parts I have.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

Oil pressure, oil temperature, wideband, and boost are your main ones.

If you have to get rid one one, oil temperature. Unless you're racing or somewhere very hot. The GT cooks its oil before the temperature on the coolant needle rises. Being able to watch oil temperature, you'll know if it's overheated. I tossed mine where the heated seat switches used to be on my GT. It's not one that has to be constantly in view like air fuels, boost, and oil pressure (one of them doing wrong things can cost you an engine in seconds)

 

[Lightrebel]

Oil pressure, oil temperature, wideband, and boost are your main ones.

If you have to get rid one one, oil temperature. Unless you're racing or somewhere very hot. The GT cooks its oil before the temperature on the coolant needle rises. Being able to watch oil temperature, you'll know if it's overheated. I tossed mine where the heated seat switches used to be on my GT. It's not one that has to be constantly in view like air fuels, boost, and oil pressure (one of them doing wrong things can cost you an engine in seconds)

Noted. Is narrowband important too?