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Hi,

I'm new to the forum here and the Mitsubishi Eclipse. I really didn't know about these cars until last summer when one pulled up next to me at a gas station. I was like... what is that? It was a great looking car, but what I really liked was the hatchback with such great lines. Looks a lot like a Ferrari, but with affordable parts etc. I thought I would keep my eye out for one. I don't see many of them around or up for sale. Finally one popped up... an 08 GS. I test drove it, and was pretty impressed, but it did lack a little bit in performance. Doing some research, I realized there was a V6 version. I have a 73 Porsche 914, and always wanted the 914/6 with the 911 motor.. so this kinda reminded me of that situation. Finally I found one about 100 miles from where I live, and went to see it today. This car hit all my preference points. Nice handling, plenty of pick up, acceleration, and has the right sporty suspension for me... not as severe as my 914, but not a boat either. Right in the pocket for me. It has quite a few dings and small dents around the body, but nothing I can't handle as I am comfortable doing light body work. Loved some of the upgrades I have seen on here as well. Looks fairly easy to work on... unlike my wife's Mercedes. I thought this would be a fun car to customize a bit... as I like to have original one of a kind cars actually. Kinda thinking of giving it a retro look, like a 70's Ferrari touch. Most cars these days are looking so boxy and anything but sexy. I picked her up for what I think was a very good price with only 110K on her. Everything is working inside and out.... just some cosmetic issues.

This forum is a gem and I want to thank everyone who has been here adding to this collective for a guy like me coming in so late to the party!
 

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Welcome to the club! I'm curious what a 70s Ferrari touch would turn these boats into. What were you thinking?
Kinda thinking chrome side mirrors rather than the typical big plastic ones ALL cars have nowadays. Also thinking what some old school basic round headlamps might look like up front. Might have to do a little body alteration around them to make them look right... then maybe a couple small chrome fenders on the front and rear...then maybe find some vintage wheels and go with the bigger old school tires rather than the usual low profile ones out these days. just thinking.
102034
 

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I love the look of the old classic sports cars... probably why the GT caught my eye.... the gorgeous lines are there for sure. However, the newer cars do have all the nice creature comforts... sun roof, heated seats, all the dash displays, power windows etc...and upgraded suspension systems compared to the old rods.... fuel injection, I mean if this little engine 3.8 V6 came out in 1971, it would have been absolutely epic and ground breaking for that time.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ModE.jpg
Maybe something like this... I always like it when people come up to me and ask.... "what kind of car is that?" Kinda what I did when I noticed the Eclipse...
 

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Basically Stock
2009 GS Turbo. 2006+2007 GT
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Neat concept. I can see wire spoke rims working out. You'll have a tough time finding smaller than a 16" rim that'll fit the brakes however. You could do GS front brakes though, I may even have a set of the front calipers still. They'd give you a little extra room

The headlights aren't to my taste, I feel like they lose the body line. Unlike the Ferrari, our fenders don't bulge up for them and get carried back

And I do like Eclipse with small mirrors. I was planning to do similar with my latest racecar 4G.
 

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I was on the way back home from the Tail-of-the-Dragon meet where I had bought a couple of little dragon stickers which i placed in the small front triangular windows. Someone saw them at a rest stop on the Blue Ridge Parkway and thought the car was a Ferrari!

Welcome to the club!
 

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I went to the pick and pull today as they had an 07 GS on the lot.... I could use a new front bumper, my black leather driver seat is a bit torn up... I realize now that the GS didn't come with leather and heated seats from what I understand. I could use some new seats I suppose, but I would like to keep the heaters. The passenger seat is ok...no tears, but a nice set of new seats would be great. The car was owned by a smoker and smells pretty bad. I steamed the carpets and headliner and used an O2 inonizer... worked a bit, but not good enough really. Probably need to just replace all the carpets and reclean the seats some more. I'll have to do lots of small body work with some kind of bondo or something. I'm not a huge fan of the low profile wheels most cars have these days. I think there is too much space between the tires and the wheel wells. Would like to take off about two inches. Could lower the car like many do there with different springs or coils.. but I actually like the height.... would just prefer to fill it with bigger tires.. not necessarily bigger rims. Not sure what I will do with that. Didn't think about the size of the breaks and how those would fit inside the back side of the wheels. There must be something out there.
 

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2009 GS Turbo. 2006+2007 GT
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Leather seats and heaters were optional in the USA. In Canada heated seats were the only option, but could be cloth or leather, and in either of the colour options

For the smells, I struggled there with my TT. The previous owner smoked cigars in it. You'd be amazed with how much soaks into the hard surfaces, give those a good cleaning, and don't be afraid to use disinfectant in the vents too! They carry a lot of nasty smells.

If you do larger tire diameter, be careful to measure so they won't run when at full lock steering. Also note that your speedometer and odometer will be wrong. Larger diameter will also raise the car higher by half the diameter increase. To fill the gap would be about 3" more diameter, which would put you to 30" tires roughly, and 1.5" taller.

If you wanted really small rotors, there's a small rotor kit for the Evo 8/9 that'll work. But it's expensive, both new and used. GS front brakes are probably a better go if you must go smaller than stock GT brakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you do larger tire diameter, be careful to measure so they won't run when at full lock steering. Also note that your speedometer and odometer will be wrong. Larger diameter will also raise the car higher by half the diameter increase. To fill the gap would be about 3" more diameter, which would put you to 30" tires roughly, and 1.5" taller.
Would we not get better mpg in theory with bigger diameter tires? Is it possible to simply put bigger tires on the stock wheels? or are the wheels made to accommodate the contemporary low profile tires that are all the craze these days.
 

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Oh boy. Science time!

Larger diameter tires would change the effective gear ratio, resulting in lower RPM, which in itself reduces frictional and pumping losses from the engine, which adds efficiency. However, fuel economy comes from efficient flow, as well as low power needs.

As for the volumetric efficiency, and thermal efficiency change when changing to a lower RPM on the highway, I can't very much speak to without specific data. However, an engine is not always using the least fuel when at the lowest RPM. Load, and engine design factor into that. Eg, to do the same amount of work at 1000rpm as 2000rpm requires nearly twice the force, but to get that level of force may not be efficient.

As for the power needs, as you go to a larger diameter, mass increases. So you're now trying to move more mass, which results in a direct increase in power to move it, as well as force to accelerate it. Being a wheel though, it's also spinning. That spinning force is a rotational inertia, much like the forward inertia previously explained. So to do that, force and power must be increased as well. The big downside is, the farther from the center of rotation the mass is, the more inertia it carries. Think of it as a result of leverage. It's hard to move a lever when you're pushing on the shorter side as is, now if you extend the long end, you're having an even worse time. That's similar in idea to what also causes the force reduction, even though power and force is unchanged from the engine. When measured at the wheels, there's a loss from that already

Next up, a larger sidewall. Sidewalls work as a spring. A spring deforms, which takes force to do. The amount of compression of the spring is in direct relationship to the power taken to make that action. So by moving a spring farther, which a larger sidewall allows due to being softer and allowing the transfer of energy, it is absorbing energy. The source of that energy was the fuel you burned in the engine. So you're converting fuel into sidewall movement now.

Then there's the contact patch. As you move to a larger tire, contact patch in general stays unchanged in a static setting. This is why when going to a wider tire you don't gain straight line grip (contact patch shape is made wider but not as long) but it allows you to air down the tire to gain a larger overall patch. In the real world, we have to account for tire deformation. The larger sidewalls will be absorbing force, but in their compressive motion, the contact patch will become larger than a tire that doesn't allow deformation. This results in added friction as the tread interacts both on a simple level of slight sliding across pavement as it always does, but also on the molecular level of the rubber bonding and then being pulled away, separating it from the road. Both of those will add to the power needed to sustain motion, as they are parasitic loads. A good example of countering that with harder wheels is a train. The wheels on a train have such a low rolling resistance that a pickup truck can tow a row of train cars on a track. In fact, with a stiffer chassis, a Honda Civic would be able to put out enough force in the lower gears to sustain motion. The difference in rolling resistance coefficient is about 100x more force is needed to move a rubber tire on a car across pavement than steel wheels on a steel track. Steel also doesn't need to worry near as much about contact patch changing, or deformation causing energy losses. The downside for trains that cars don't worry much about is that along with low rolling resistance, they also have very low friction, which is why you don't see trains driving up any steep hills. In fact, about 1 degree of elevation is the generally accepted limit for freight train tracks (although certain trains can go higher, depending on pusher car situations and whatnot, but I got WAY off topic)

So to summarize:
Pro: lower engine RPM for less drag on the motor
Con: extra friction, extra force from tire deformation, extra force needed to accelerate, extra power needed to sustain the added linear and rotational inertia
Possible con: may bring the engine out of an efficient range for the force needed at the specific power level applied, which is highly variable. It's why you may get better fuel economy going up a hill in 4th not 5th, but another hill of a different grade may not, and a different engine could be totally different again, even in the same chassis.



As for the rims being unable to support larger tires, nah you're fine. They're just basic rims.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Oh boy. Science time!


So to summarize:
Pro: lower engine RPM for less drag on the motor
Con: extra friction, extra force from tire deformation, extra force needed to accelerate, extra power needed to sustain the added linear and rotational inertia
Possible con: may bring the engine out of an efficient range for the force needed at the specific power level applied, which is highly variable. It's why you may get better fuel economy going up a hill in 4th not 5th, but another hill of a different grade may not, and a different engine could be totally different again, even in the same chassis.



As for the rims being unable to support larger tires, nah you're fine. They're just basic rims.
Thanks Sabertooth for the well thought out articulate post! I really appreciate it. Certainly some things to consider now that I would not have prior. So I suppose the move toward the harder, stiffer low profile tires has some science behind it for fuel economy.

I was born in the mid 1960's, so growing up, I was acclimated toward larger tires with higher walls etc. I also have a 71 SS El Camino in the driveway that is all about big tires and burning lots of gas... a real gasoholic with that big block 454 in there. Torque for days.

But I digress, on the Eclipse, the wheels looks a bit strange to me with so much room between them and the wheel wells. I don't worry so much about the accuracy of the gauges. In the El Camino, I put on some bigger tires in the rear and it really looks great.. but throws off the mph by about 7 mph I think. Shows I am not going as fast as I am... but I can mentally compensate... On the Eclipse GT, I could of course lower the car down, but I kinda like the height as it is for driving visibility. I also have a Porsche 914 that rides just inches off the ground. It's kinda scary at times on a fast moving busy metropolitan freeway... I just feel people can't see me so well because I can't always see them either.

I do like to customize my cars to make them personal and somewhat unique. I like how a lot of the members here modify things inside, outside and the engine as well. I am really looking forward to exploring the many things members here have done.

Today I took out both the front seats to clean underneath and glad I did... it was a big source of the endless odor that would not go away. There was something rotting under there and it took an hour or so to get that steamed out of the carpets. I think all the carpets are ok now. The driver side seat is torn up badly on the bottom cushion... so thinking about all the options, cover, some new racing seats, or hoping I can pull one out of a Pick and Pull someday. I decided to just have it re upholstered. I found a local guy with a stock of all kinds of leather that found a near perfect match and it going to get it done within a week. A bit pricey at $450, but this way I can keep these really nice leather seats with the heaters and the remotes on them. He also told me they have air bags in them which was a bit of a shock. He told me not to start the car until I have them back in and hooked up or it will throw an engine code. Learn something every day! I also ordered a new front fender as this one is pretty trashed. I could fix it with a lot of work, but for $100 I just found a new aftermarket one.
 

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You did unplug the battery and wait 15 minutes before messing with the airbag system right?
And it won’t throw an engine code, it will throw and airbag system code

Yes messing with the wheel and tire size from what yours came with and says in the door sticker for tire sizes will throw the speedometer and odometers off

I have 17s on my WRX tho when it came with 16s, but I also have a JDM transmission in it with a different final drive ratio that nearly equally throws off the speedometer reading in the opposite way that the bigger wheels throws it off, making it nearly perfect again lol

I don’t think our 17 inch tires are “ultra low profile” “modern” tires as you say
225/50R17 is a super common size for any passenger car, even Ford Fusions use it
Load and speed rating is 93V btw if you’re looking for new tires, so they must be equal to or higher than those

There’s also treadwear ratings, temp ratings, and traction ratings on the side of a tire to look out for; u can also find the date (week/year) it was made to find out how old a modern tire is, as they’re no good after 10 years for sure even for casual road use, but even for sporty driving u might wanna get new ones after about 5/6

The real solution to the Eclipse wheel gap is to lower the car with some proper quality coil overs if you’re really looking for performance, not messing around with tire sizes
Me personally, sure I agree it’d look better with smaller wheel gap, but I also kinda need clearance living in Ohio with our terrible roads lol

Also note our stock 17 inch wheel is a 7.5 inch wide rim as well, meaning you can only put so wide of a tire on it, there’s a range, 225mm is stock for a reason, can’t go much skinnier or wider than that, and they’ll have to be stretched to do so

 

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Discussion Starter #15
You did unplug the battery and wait 15 minutes before messing with the airbag system right?


No, I did not unplug the battery... I was just taking the seats out... I had zero idea there was an airbag packed inside the seat! So, maybe there will be an issue when I start the car. The guy at the shop told me NOT to start the car until I put the seats back in.. so will just have to wait and see. I do have an OBD reader... so maybe I can reset the codes with that ... but not sure about the airbag codes if they show up when scanned on the OBD.
 

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No, I did not unplug the battery... I was just taking the seats out... I had zero idea there was an airbag packed inside the seat! So, maybe there will be an issue when I start the car. The guy at the shop told me NOT to start the car until I put the seats back in.. so will just have to wait and see. I do have an OBD reader... so maybe I can reset the codes with that ... but not sure about the airbag codes if they show up when scanned on the OBD.
I would unplug the battery before plugging the seats back in to avoid setting them off when you plug them back in
I forget if airbag codes will set if the ignition is never turned on
Generic obd readers won’t clear airbag codes, I know for sure Autel DiagLink all systems can (MD808 all systems), maybe Blue Driver?
 

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I went to the pick and pull today as they had an 07 GS on the lot.... I could use a new front bumper, my black leather driver seat is a bit torn up... I realize now that the GS didn't come with leather and heated seats from what I understand. I could use some new seats I suppose, but I would like to keep the heaters. The passenger seat is ok...no tears, but a nice set of new seats would be great. The car was owned by a smoker and smells pretty bad. I steamed the carpets and headliner and used an O2 inonizer... worked a bit, but not good enough really. Probably need to just replace all the carpets and reclean the seats some more. I'll have to do lots of small body work with some kind of bondo or something. I'm not a huge fan of the low profile wheels most cars have these days. I think there is too much space between the tires and the wheel wells. Would like to take off about two inches. Could lower the car like many do there with different springs or coils.. but I actually like the height.... would just prefer to fill it with bigger tires.. not necessarily bigger rims. Not sure what I will do with that. Didn't think about the size of the breaks and how those would fit inside the back side of the wheels. There must be something out there.
I installed Bembro's on my GT and got away with wheel spacers for a while until I bought rims.
 

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When you see a yellow plug on any car, stop, realize that's the airbag and evaluate if you need to risk throwing an airbag light, unplug the battery, remove it if needed after waiting a bit or manually discharging the system
Everyone:
To top this all off about yellow plugs being airbags universally and to not mess with them unless you know what you’re doing unless you want an airbag in your face to take your teeth out or kill you

if you see Orange on a hybrid or electric car, it’s high power wiring that could kill you
 

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Picked up the newly reupholstered front drivers seat today from the custom shop downtown. Wayne did a great job matching up the dark charcoal leather and grain. I couldn't tell. Got them back into the car today and everything hooked up again.

The interior is looking so sharp can clean now. Hard to believe it really as I thought the interior was not in such good shape, but most of it was just really dirty. Two days of cleaning, steaming, lexol cleaner and conditioner on the leather seats brought them back to a new look. Amazing really.

The new front bumper casing came today. The old front was just too torn up to try to fix it.. and plastic etc. Picked up an new one off ebay for $110. I think there are a few more tricky bolts under the headlight housing and behind the wheel wells I'll have to negotiate tomorrow. Didn't see youtube video on front bumper removal for the G4... but hopefully I can figure it out.

Still not sure I am thrilled with the stock headlight look. Saw the video of the lime green car that did the big front sporty makeover with the eyelids. Pretty cool, but looks like bit more work than I would want to do now.
The smoked looking headlamp covers do look a lot better... not sure where to get those.

Also not thrilled with the way the car sits on the wheels with so much gap. Read something about D2 coil overs, but I really don't know anything about those or how they go in. I assume just shorter coils around the shocks? Maybe those with a little bigger wheels?

Anyway, just having a blast on this.... and really inspired by seeing all the cool mods being done.
 
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