[Rev4g]

What’s up folks. My first post here was an how-to on a starter replacement for the GT. Not hard by any means, but no one had a write up for the v6 and honestly, appears easier than the 4cylinder.
Anywho, proper introduction.
Picked my car up from another owner who held on to it after his father-in-law passed away. He was a nice man and a reverend, hence the double entendre (rev for reverend and for high revs while racing).
Immediately upon picking the car up, I’ve replaced the clutch and flywheel, starter, just finished my timing belt kit, and will be tackling valve cover gaskets with tube seals and new plugs.

i followed a few threads and YouTube videos on the timing belt and while they were awesome and detailed, I think it’s still something one should not be in a rush to finish.The only trouble I ran into was getting the auto tensioner set properly. 36 in lbs is a lot more than I anticipated haha. I had to reset timing and recompress the hydraulic tensioner more than 5 times during my install. On the final try, my locking pin was able to be pulled out and reinserted while still spinning just as free as it was before pulling it. I completed 4 total revolutions and marks still lined up, no noises or severe resistance when turning. Bent valves were a concern I had when doing the job, as my right bank camshaft spun counter clockwise a quarter of a turn after removing the belt. I’ll finish buttoning her up and completing the rest of the jobs at hand this evening.
Anyway, plans for the build:

keeping her NA for as long as I can. FI kits are ridiculous or hard to find for this platform.
RRE headers
Injen CIA
Swapping resonator and muffler with high flow parts and getting a 3.5-4 inch tip
Dyno tune once i Find a standalone ecu
18” wheels with squared setup
Possibly the high rise (2g style) 06 spoiler
Black headlights with a 08 SE style bumper lip

Ive read up on the TB coolant bypass, not entirely convinced yet, but some folks have seen the results. Besides that, I’ll peruse the forums for more inspiration.

Im out of Oklahoma. Not many of us on the forum it seems.

Precious sports car was a 2010 Camaro SS that I put a stage 3 cam and a 3600 stall converter in, full tsp long tube headers and vararam intake. About 500 to the wheels with torque to match on a local shops mustang dyno. Wasn’t bad.

 

[Rev4g]

Finished everything the night I made this post. Took me a total of about 3 hours taking my time to reinstall power steering pump, engine mount, remove valve covers to replace all gaskets and tube seals, remount, replace the plugs with some NGK BKR6EIX plugs, reinstall plenum and air box, and reconnect all the connectors as well as throw 2 gallons of antifreeze in my car. Only thing left is putting all the plastic trim back in place.
All in all, I’m satisfied. Now that all the necessary CRITICAL maintenance is done, time to plan my mods.
I did notice my knock sensor was chewed by some rodent. Not sure how “crucial” they are to the car. If I don’t “need” it, then I’ll save my 30-40 bucks.

I’ll eventually post car pics. Just felt the need to express and stress how vital maintenance is. If you can’t do it yourself, pay someone.

I have been considering the seafoam treatment. Seems a lot of people swear by it. Maybe when I come up on my next oil change. For now, I’ll just use some injector treatment in the gas tank and call it a day lol.

PS - the $90 Bauer electric impact wrench “corded” from harbor freight is a monster. It made quick work of that balancer bolt that my air impact couldn’t get.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

Knock sensor: Not needed until it is, then it can save the engine

I've used seafoam in the engine oil a bunch of times. It's good for cars that have had oil changes too late and built up deposits. I put it in with the engine hot after a hard run, let it idle a while, then remove the cruddy oil. I also like the top end cleaner. I've seen the difference it makes when taking engines apart that have had it done vs not. A lot less carbon buildup on the valves and pistons

 

[Rev4g]

Knock sensor: Not needed until it is, then it can save the engine

I've used seafoam in the engine oil a bunch of times. It's good for cars that have had oil changes too late and built up deposits. I put it in with the engine hot after a hard run, let it idle a while, then remove the cruddy oil. I also like the top end cleaner. I've seen the difference it makes when taking engines apart that have had it done vs not. A lot less carbon buildup on the valves and pistons

Definitely something I’ll do my next oil change 👍🏾
As for the knock sensor, I’m assuming it’d be best to just order a new one and pop it on yeah? No cel in the vehicle…. Figured if something were off that the knock sensor would otherwise detect, I’d get a code.

i sorta doubt the previous owner kept up with routine oil changes. The oil was clean in terms of any other contaminants/metal, but it sure as shit was pitch black lol.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

It wouldn't hurt matters.

And you won't get a CEL unless the knock sensor works. Lack of sensor gives the same signal as no knock--silence. It's basically a microphone on your engine. Vibrations make it move, and past a threshold its considered knock. That's why other things like a loose piece on the engine can also set them off

 

[Rev4g]

It wouldn't hurt matters.

And you won't get a CEL unless the knock sensor works. Lack of sensor gives the same signal as no knock--silence. It's basically a microphone on your engine. Vibrations make it move, and past a threshold its considered knock. That's why other things like a loose piece on the engine can also set them off

Apparently it also aids in fuel economy and performance having a working one attached?

 

[Sabertooth^2]

I can't see how. It's about engine protection

Plugged in:
When there's no signal from it, the engine thinks everything is ok, so it won't pull timing or add extra fuel

However when there is a signal from it, the engine has an issue, it will pull timing and add fuel.

Not plugged in:
There's never any signal, so it thinks the engine is healthy and there's no reason to go into a protective mode (even if it's knocking like crazy it won't protect itself)

 

[Rev4g]

I can't see how. It's about engine protection

Plugged in:
When there's no signal from it, the engine thinks everything is ok, so it won't pull timing or add extra fuel

However when there is a signal from it, the engine has an issue, it will pull timing and add fuel.

Not plugged in:
There's never any signal, so it thinks the engine is healthy and there's no reason to go into a protective mode (even if it's knocking like crazy it won't protect itself)

min curious about this knocking. Is it an audible knock one could hear themselves, or more on a specific high frequency only detected by the sensor mic itself?

in any event, I ordered a knock sensor. I wanted to avoid it since I just put everything back together and that plenum was a beast to get out lol. Guess I’ll do it all when my injen intake gets here in a week.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

It's audible if strong enough and you know which sound it is.


To make things VERY specific in how the sensor functions with the ECU software:

Using knock sensors, the car will decide if it's able to go higher on the ignition/fuel maps towards optimal setting of 100% learned octane value. 100% is the optimal spot the car should be at. Below that, the car isn't running optimally (but doesn't mean it's BROKEN, just not as good as it could be). Lower values indicate normal wear, poor/wrong fuel, or damage. That's why some guys run better on 93 octane, even though the GT only needed 91 when new. It's not an illusion every time, and there is a quantifiable way to check with an OBD scan tool (learned octane value) with live data display capabilities.

Octane learned value when high does optimal ignition timing and fuel use

When low, it pulls timing (less efficient, meaning you need more fuel and air to make equal power, including cruising) and generally richer ratios

Below 89c coolant temperature, it won't try to learn new values.
Learning happens ONLY in the 1500-3000rpm range.

To decide if it goes up or down, the car splits it into a high load and a low load mode.

Low load is below 160 load value (a complicated to compute value that looks at how much force the engine is putting out, basically, without being externally measured).
High load is 160+

At low load, if it detects 12.5%+ of max value sweep on the knock sensor for 0.6 seconds, it will lower the learned octane value. If it's below 12.5% for the 1.8 it will learn up the octane value.

At high load, if it sees 25%+ max sweep value it will trigger the learn down. Less than 25%, it can learn up. The engine naturally makes more noise and vibration under high load, which is why the value can't be 12.5%

Beyond 4000rpm, the car will look at knock enrichment. This is adding extra fuel beyond the typical values. I don't have that data on exact amounts of change in front of me.

 

[Rev4g]

It's audible if strong enough and you know which sound it is.


To make things VERY specific in how the sensor functions with the ECU software:

Using knock sensors, the car will decide if it's able to go higher on the ignition/fuel maps towards optimal setting of 100% learned octane value. 100% is the optimal spot the car should be at. Below that, the car isn't running optimally (but doesn't mean it's BROKEN, just not as good as it could be). Lower values indicate normal wear, poor/wrong fuel, or damage. That's why some guys run better on 93 octane, even though the GT only needed 91 when new. It's not an illusion every time, and there is a quantifiable way to check with an OBD scan tool (learned octane value) with live data display capabilities.

Octane learned value when high does optimal ignition timing and fuel use

When low, it pulls timing (less efficient, meaning you need more fuel and air to make equal power, including cruising) and generally richer ratios

Below 89c coolant temperature, it won't try to learn new values.
Learning happens ONLY in the 1500-3000rpm range.

To decide if it goes up or down, the car splits it into a high load and a low load mode.

Low load is below 160 load value (a complicated to compute value that looks at how much force the engine is putting out, basically, without being externally measured).
High load is 160+

At low load, if it detects 12.5%+ of max value sweep on the knock sensor for 0.6 seconds, it will lower the learned octane value. If it's below 12.5% for the 1.8 it will learn up the octane value.

At high load, if it sees 25%+ max sweep value it will trigger the learn down. Less than 25%, it can learn up. The engine naturally makes more noise and vibration under high load, which is why the value can't be 12.5%

Beyond 4000rpm, the car will look at knock enrichment. This is adding extra fuel beyond the typical values. I don't have that data on exact amounts of change in front of me.

Jeez brotha. Appreciate the detailed insight which isn’t explained hardly at all when googling the importance of knock sensors. Now it makes sense why we should ecu reset with mods.

that being said, since I’m unsure what fuel was put inbefore purchasing the car, some treatment on a fresh tank of 91 should rectify any issues the car may have had running lower octane. No telling how long those knock sensor has been ate up.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

The car would be at 100% learned octane value, because it would have never seen knock due to there being no sensor.

So at least we can say that your engine is healthy enough to not be ripping itself apart

 

[Rev4g]

The car would be at 100% learned octane value, because it would have never seen knock due to there being no sensor.

So at least we can say that your engine is healthy enough to not be ripping itself apart

That’s certainly exceptional news lol.

Appreciate your insight and knowledge on all this. Only issue I need to fix now is tcl off activating the second I push the car. Knock sensor issue wouldn’t cause that would it? My back tires are hella shot, but I highly doubt that would be the issue.

it turns off after I disconnect the battery, or if the car sits a while.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

Check your codes. Some, like timing being off, or rich/lean will do it, but so will a bad speed sensor or reluctor ring on a hub/axle

 

[Rev4g]

Check your codes. Some, like timing being off, or rich/lean will do it, but so will a bad speed sensor or reluctor ring on a hub/axle

I’ll see if I can pull any codes. I have no engine light on.

let me ask. When timing is off, does the car not run rough, if at all? It seems the car runs very strong. All gears feel really snappy and responsive. It has done this since before I got it, before I replaced the timing kit.

I’ll take a look at my speed sensor when I get a chance. Might not be able to tell anything just by looking, figure I would know if that is failing. Also, previous owner put new front tires on, but the backs are borderline racing slicks lol

 

[Sabertooth^2]

Off by 1 tooth it'll run fine but throw a cam position sensor code.

Tread alone would surprise me if it threw the stability and TC lights on, but it's possible.

Also possible are changes in the brake light/pedal sensor circuits, as that's tied in with the stability/TC system.

 

[Rev4g]

Off by 1 tooth it'll run fine but throw a cam position sensor code.

Tread alone would surprise me if it threw the stability and TC lights on, but it's possible.

Also possible are changes in the brake light/pedal sensor circuits, as that's tied in with the stability/TC system.

I’m hella new to these cars. I’m used to my old Camaro I had built. So, if TCL off light is on, but no SES light, I can still have codes for the timing? I probably should’ve cleaned the CSP sensor before reattaching it, but I didnt

i just want to verify before I pull the upper timing covers and crankshaft pulley back off. I rewatched the video I sent my buddy when I finished setting tension, doing two rotations and waiting about 5-10 minutes, and the marks were dead on. Now that I’m familiar with the whole process, that little bit of work won’t be back breaking, but still something I don’t necessarily want to do haha.

Side note - again, this TCL off mess was happening even before I bought the car and before I did the timing belt.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

No, timing issues throw an engine code

But an issue with the brake light circuit, eg, aftermarket tail lights, spliced into wiring, etc that affects the overall resistance of the circuit will throw a body code and no CEL

 

[Rev4g]

No, timing issues throw an engine code

But an issue with the brake light circuit, eg, aftermarket tail lights, spliced into wiring, etc that affects the overall resistance of the circuit will throw a body code and no CEL

Why do we even like these cars lol.

you’ve been a significant amount of help my man. I did notice a red wire running across the front of the car just underneath the top lip of the bumper cover. Looks to be running from the headlights. I guess tomorrow I’ll throw some more diag time at the car and hopefully discover something.

 

[Sabertooth^2]

I like the aero profile, looks, price, and available space for modding. Anyone who doesn't then take a saw to theirs, hey, that's on you xD

Definitely check out what the butcher who owned it last did with wiring.

 

[Rev4g]

I like the aero profile, looks, price, and available space for modding. Anyone who doesn't then take a saw to theirs, hey, that's on you xD

Definitely check out what the butcher who owned it last did with wiring.

this has been my favorite car of all I owned. I’ve loved the looks of the eclipse since the 2g and when the 4g came out when I was a kid, I dreamt of having one. I took on other projects and could never find a solid condition 4g so I’m definitely ecstatic to have it. I agree, the aero profile, big booty, and “slept on” reputation they have definitely keeps me happy. So that part about why do we even like the car was a joke hah!

i definitely will. I’m hoping not to uncover anything too “facepalming”.